July 28, 2006

The Aftermath…

Well I regret it now don’t I? Some people have been helpful. Jason Cherniak sent me one of his former University essays where he explained Canada’s position during the creation of the state of Israel.

My views have changed slightly in regards to the creation of the state itself. I reiterate that I, at no point in time, said that the state of Israel should not exist.

I still believe the United Nations and Great Britain failed miserably in preventing violence from breaking out in the region. That set the tone for the past 60 years of bloodshed and violence.

The creation of a state specifically for a certain religious group of people is very difficult to do without displacing a group of people who already may have been there. Some insist the Palestinians left the territory so it was fair game. I still believe the uncertainty surrounding the entire affair caused people to panic. Both sides were guilty of provoking fear among their opponents’ civilian population.

Creating a state exclusively for the purposes of a religion can also be dangerous for the minorities who must inhabit the new state. The Arabs in Israel do have many rights which they would not have in other states. However, the exclusion of those same Palestinians on the other side of that barrier is troubling.

A Palestinian state with the present territory would have more Muslims in it than Jews. Up until 1975, Lebanon showed that a pluralistic society with two major religions can co-operate peacefully. Jason’s essay outlines how a combined was a possible option advanced by Canada but eventually rejected.

As for the recent Israeli action, destroying what Lebanon has spent the last 15 years rebuilding because two soldiers were kidnapped borders on insanity. Yes, Hezbollah is a terrorist organization. The ETA was a terrorist organization and so was the IRA. Great Britain never bombed Dublin because some of their politicians supported Sinn Fein. When Sinn Fein elected members to the house of Commons, there was no retaliatory airstrikes in Belfast or Dublin.

Lebanon has just finished sending off Syria in a quiet peaceful Cedar revolution. Eliminating Hezbollah is now impossible for this Lebanese Prime Minister. What will Israel do if Lebanon elects Hezbollah? They will be indirectly responsible for it. The IRA was disarmed through effective policework and co-operation of authorities to arrest the radicals as well as promote the doves within Sinn Fein. Same for ETA. Catalan separatists have been part of the Spanish government on several occasions. All we had to do was give Lebanon time. What Israel has done is used a bazooka to swat a fly. The destruction of Lebanon and the spirit of the Lebanese people is collateral damage. Who feels better now?

15 Commentaires:

Blogger foottothefire a dit...

Israel is reality. Palestinians are reality. Hezbollah is reality. If we insist on being stuck in the past the Us, Britain, Israel, piddly little Canada and the rest who helped create that reality will never get out of the quagmire. We'd all do well though, to start with a regular read of Gwynne Dyer(.com), sooth sayer extrordinaire. At least we'd come away with a realization of where our heads have been stuck for several decades.

7/28/2006 7:48 a.m.  
Blogger grit heart a dit...

"The creation of a state specifically for a certain religious group of people is very difficult to do without displacing a group of people who already may have been there"

Jews have always lived in the land of Israel.

There has always been a majority in Jerusalem.

7/28/2006 5:52 p.m.  
Blogger Antonio a dit...

I have never denied that there were no Jews living there beforehand.

To say that significant amount Palestinians were not displaced by this would be a tad naive.

7/28/2006 6:21 p.m.  
Blogger cat mutant a dit...

Let's not forget the many Palestinians, both Christian (who most later immigrated to the West) and Muslim who were living in the Israel/Palestine area.

From the get-go, a multi-religous democratic state should have been created, and I bet, we wouldn't have as bad of a terrorism problem today.

But alas, we can't time-travel. Hence, the Palestine state-hood issue should be addressed and solved once and for all.

The state of Jerusalem is a sticking issue. The UN should designate it a free-state (similar situation in WW2, the Trieste Free Territory) and slowly work out the complex issues. In the end, Jerusalem should be a shared and probably divided capital, an Israeli side and a Palestinian side.

7/28/2006 7:23 p.m.  
Blogger Vincent Robidas a dit...

L'ETA veut la création d'un État indépendant basque et non catalan. De mémoire, il n'existe pas un groupe armé radical du côté catalan.

Ce message avait pour but d'éviter toute confusion, mais l'esprit reste le même

7/28/2006 8:04 p.m.  
Blogger grit heart a dit...


More Jews became refugees in 1948 from their expulsion from Arab lands than Arabs as a result of the creation of the State of Israel.

The difference is that Israel and world wide jewry did everything possible to take care of their brethern.

Arab leaders placed their people in camps, collected money from the UN for over 50 years (sent most of it to their bank accounts in Switzerland) and left their brethern in squalor in the camps - the better to have them serve as their pawns.

7/28/2006 9:25 p.m.  
Blogger grit heart a dit...


There are dozens and dozens of Muslim countries, hundreds of christian ones. Can you tell me why there cannot be one (1) Jewish country in the entire world??

7/28/2006 9:26 p.m.  
Blogger Alex B. a dit...


I'm not sure I understood what you meant, but as Vincent pointed out, ETA is Basque and not Catalan. Basque nationalism has very little to do with Catalan nationalism.

Moreover, I may be wrong, but as far as I can remember, Catalan secessionists were never a part of the Spanish federal government. Catalan nationalists maybe, but not plain secessionists. Esquerra Republicana de Catalunya did participate in the government of the Generalitat (in Catalunya) through the Tripartit, but never in the Spanish federal government. Neither Convergència i Unió nor the Partit dels Socialistes de Catalunya are separatist parties, so the argument doesn't quite work.

7/28/2006 10:04 p.m.  
Blogger cat mutant a dit...

Grit Heart

I have no problem with a Jewish country. That is the reality of today. What I am saying is that from the beginning a multi-religious state should have been established in the Israel/Palestine area that would have actively included Jews, Christians, and Muslims and not just focus on one of the area's religions, because the whole area is very religously mixed. A case in point is Lebanon, which was created having the Christian, Muslim and Druze communities. Now there was the civil war between the various religous and political factions, but before that, the communities had lived together relatively peacefully for hundreds of years.

Today the state of Israel is a majority Jewish state with minority Christian and Muslim populations who are very well treated. This cannot be denied, and must be applauded.

We cannot change the past, but we can help build a better future. I believe in Israeli statehood, but I also strongly believe that Palestinian statehood must be solved once and for all. If the communities clash, send in UN troops as a buffer.

7/29/2006 2:12 a.m.  
Blogger grit heart a dit...


I too believe in a Palestinian State.

The problem I have with your comments is that, while you accept the State of Israel, you would have perferred a different type of State. In other words you reject the established of the only State in the world that is the national homeland of the Jewish people - A Jewish State.

Why is it to much to ask that in a sea of a dozen muslim/arab States that a tiny track of land could be carved out to form the only Jewish State in the ancient homeland of the Jewish People?!

7/29/2006 7:53 a.m.  
Blogger cat mutant a dit...

Because in the establishment of the state of Israel, many Palestinians, who had been living on that land for generations, were put into limbo in the Palestinian territories.

I do not reject the creation of the Jewish state. Rather, if a different state had been created, it could have encompassed all religions more actively. But reality was that a Jewish state was created and the Palestinian question has been left unanswered for 50+ years. Another option so the Jews would have their own state and Palestinians would have their own state would have been to hammer down what the boundaries should be, through the UN, and thus create two states, where the borders were set out.

I am not against the state of Israel, and do support it, but you cannot deny that it is ridiculous that the world community hasn't stepped in sufficiently to solve the Israel - Palestine issue. And if its called fiddling in other states' affairs, I don't buy it... because the consequences of this protracted situation has been the used by fanatics as the main cause for their twisted actions and ideology. Time to take that away from them.

7/29/2006 9:54 a.m.  
Blogger grit heart a dit...


"Another option so the Jews would have their own state and Palestinians would have their own state would have been to hammer down what the boundaries should be, through the UN, and thus create two states, where the borders were set out."

Think you need to read some history...In 1947 the UN Partition Plan was set out. The Israel's immediately accepted the plan to divide Palestine into a Jewish Homeland (Israel) and a Palestinian State.

The Arab nations all rejected the plan and their armies declared war on Israel.

It was the rejection of Israel and the plan for two states by the Arabs that has led to 58 years of conflict and Palestinians left in
camps by their Arab brethren.

7/29/2006 2:20 p.m.  
Blogger cat mutant a dit...

Grit Heart

I'm well-versed on the history of the region. My comment about establishing two states and setting up boundaries was to be applied to the present. The first time this happened, it failed and war resulted. Hence, the whole region has been in a state of purgatory for the past 60 years. Now the world community should work to make it happen today.

7/29/2006 4:05 p.m.  
Blogger grit heart a dit...

Cat Mutant:

Its no great secret what the boundries will be. Ehud Barak, Bill Clinton and Yasser Arafat hammered that out several years back at Camp David. At the final moment, Arafat backed out and launched his second intifada.

The addition of armed extremists (Hamas and Hizbollah) has complicated the scene. The first order is to disarm the extremists, then we can get back to borders.

7/29/2006 4:09 p.m.  
Blogger s.b. a dit...

Hey Antonio,

The Israeli defence department is saying the closest bombardmanet to Qanna was a kilometre away. Maybe a Hezbollah arsenal was responsible for killing all those women and children. Maybe it was even detonated on purpose for photo ops and international sympathy. Even accidentally, armamnets hidden under and around women and children sometimes go off. I will be very interested in an international force investigating whether it was Israeli or Syrian armaments that were detonated in Qanna, but I'm sure they'll have cleaned up the area before they let anyone investigate, as usual.

What will you say then Antonio. It's still Israels fault that Hezbollah felt it had to hide arms under women and children and then detonate them. I'm sure you will.

8/01/2006 10:10 a.m.  

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