December 3, 2006

Let the Hypocrisy Begin

Yes, I am now a pariah because I had the gall to suggest that the new leader take the views of others into account.

To say I had a rough weekend would be an understatement, but I will like to point out a few things to all the hypocrites that are screaming party blindness…er unity.

1) If I believed 24 hours ago that Dion would lose us seats in Quebec if he won, then I still believe it now. Saying otherwise would be LYING!

2) If I believed that renewing the party was not putting a Cabinet Minister of 10 years at the helm 24 hours ago, then I still believe it now. Saying otherwise would be LYING!

3) If I believed 24 hours ago that Dion’s stubborn attitude towards soft nationalists could be bad for national unity, especially when we have federalist opponents in Quebec, then I still believe it now. Saying otherwise would be LYING!

4) If I believed that an environment minister who only talked about reducing emissions instead of actually reducing them was not credible on the environment, then I still believe it now. Saying otherwise would be LYING!

Now to prove my point, would all Iggy detractors forget everything they have been saying about him for 8 months? I somehow REALLY doubt it.

Can these things be changed? I would say nothing is set in stone.

So suck it up, we have work to do, especially in Quebec. I have said it before and I will say it again, if we want to win back the hearts and minds of Quebecers, we will need to listen to them.

Am I being divisive when all I say is that we will need to pull up our bootstraps if we have any chance at winning? No. I never predicted an Ignatieff win would be an easy election victory either. So open your eyes and get to work.

I will get to work. There is policy to write! There is grassroots to be consulted! Let’s get to work. Mr Dion, my hand is still there, if you wish to take it.

30 Commentaires:

Blogger anybody but iggy a dit...

When you claimed you would offer your hand to the new party leaders, and the new party direction, you were LYING!!
See how dumb using caps to indicate screaming makes you look?

12/03/2006 10:29 p.m.  
Blogger Jason Townsend a dit...

"Anybody but iggy" has been trolling up a storm today; probably some reject from SDA who learned how to fake a blogger login.

12/03/2006 11:12 p.m.  
Blogger Antonio a dit...

sigh anybody but iggy,

seems like you are ready to open old wounds.

its obvious you would never rally.

12/03/2006 11:20 p.m.  
Blogger Scott Tribe a dit...

Attacks by some should not be painted as representative from all. Just remember that Antonio; Dion's bloggers arent necessarily representative of Dion's views on taking other people's hands (nor as I said for that matter from the majority of his supporters).

12/03/2006 11:30 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous a dit...

Dion's bloggers arent necessarily representative of Dion's views on taking other people's hands (nor as I said for that matter from the majority of his supporters).

"Dion's Bloggers" aren't the ones trying to silence dissent. I have no idea who is. I for one think that Antonio's views on Dion are uncharitable, and would hope that now that the emotion of the leadership race is over, he might be more able to see Dion's strong points. That said, I would think it was absurd if he just changed his mind on how the Liberal party ought to approach the Quebec issue overnight. Frankly though, I think that the recent motion shows that Dion isn't the hard line type that his opponents make him out to be. Kennedy took a much harder line.

12/03/2006 11:46 p.m.  
Blogger big gay al's big gay liberal sanctuary a dit...

From CTV News

The Liberals' choice of Stephane Dion as their new leader gets an initial stamp of approval from the Canadian public and has given the party a bump in popularity, a new poll finds.

According to The Strategic Counsel, national support for the Liberal party is up by 5 per cent over a poll conducted in October.
"We have the Liberal grassroots thinking that Dion was a better choice and Canadians seem to agree," said CTV News Ottawa Bureau Chief Robert Fife.

The Strategic Counsel poll for CTV and The Globe and Mail found that 55 per cent of Canadians consider Dion to be a good choice for leader.

Nineteen per cent felt the Quebec MP and cabinet veteran was a poor choice, while 27 per cent had no opinion.

"Stephane Dion is a little like (former Liberal prime minister) Jean Chretien. The media and elites always underestimated Chretien, but he identified with people on Main Street," Fife said.

"I think average Canadians respect Stephane Dion because he's gutsy and he's tough, and I think (Conservative Prime Minister) Stephen Harper should be very careful."

In Dion's home province, 62 per cent found Dion a good choice while 29 per cent said he was a poor one.

Both those numbers are the highest and lowest for any regional breakout.
While 27 per cent polled either didn't know or refused to answer the Dion question, that number dropped to nine per cent in Quebec.

"They know him better there," pollster Tim Woolstencroft of The Strategic Counsel told

Dion has been a polarizing figure in Quebec because he is a strong federalist.

Right now, a good interpretation is that Canadians appear willing to give Dion a chance, he said.

The new leader will appear in Parliament on Monday. Woolstencroft said his performance there over the coming week could have an impact on defining his image.

The Liberal leadership convention in Montreal began in earnest on Friday and ended early Saturday evening. Dion scored a surprise win over political rookie Michael Ignatieff on the fourth ballot in a highly dramatic convention.

Only about 34 of Canadians say they followed the campaign closely. In a separate question, Dion and Ignatieff came out highest for name recognition.

When asked which party they would vote for if an election were held today, the Liberals came out on top: (percentage-point change from an Oct. 12-15 poll in brackets):

In Ontario, the Liberals experienced a 12-point jump, going from 36 per cent to 48 per cent. The Tories dropped a point to 32 per cent. However, in Quebec and the West, the Liberal's numbers were flat.

"The Liberal Party has had almost a week of sustained and generally favourable media coverage, so everybody really expected they would get a bump in the polls," Fife said.

Approval numbers for the Harper government remain in the black: 56 per cent approve of the job his government is doing, while 38 per cent disapprove.

However, Woolstencroft said those numbers are eroding when compared to figures from the summer. In mid-July, 67 per cent approved and 27 per cent disapproved.

Asked about how Harper and Dion would measure up in an election campaign, Fife said: "Stephane Dion and Stephen Harper are men of great integrity, high intelligence and are strategic thinkers.

"They also have different visions of the country. So I think we are going to see an amazing federal election campaign."

Most observers think Canada could be plunged into an election as early as this spring.

12/03/2006 11:58 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous a dit...

Oh boohoo! Iggy lost and I am going to sulk like a little brat.

Quit your goddman whining and get out there and support Dion like the rest of us will.

12/04/2006 12:11 a.m.  
Blogger Antonio a dit...

see what I mean... rob

I am supporting Dion, never said I was not going to.

but I am a sulking little brat for saying Dion should listen.

I never accused the Dion bloggers of being the ones behind this either

12/04/2006 12:13 a.m.  
Blogger FurGaia a dit...

Antonio, did you listen to this interview that Dion gave to Arcand ... I think it was this morning.

There is nothing "same old, same old" in there. I understand that when one is but a minister in a cabinet, one's impact on policy making is limited. Such was Dion's case in the Chretien and then the Martin government. Now that Dion is at the helm of the Party, he would be able to implement HIS view of where he thinks Canada should be going. From the interview I link to above, he has some pretty good ideas about that as well as some very incisive critics of Harper's vision for Canada.

Also regarding the "same old" argument, don't you think the fact that the two candidates who had IMO the best following for renewal (Kennedy & Hall-Findlay) ended up supporting Dion? That at least should tell you to give the man the benefit of the doubt for now. However, it is understandable that it will take some time before trust can be built between the non-Dionistas and Dion and it is in large measure up to him to reach out to you.

Final point: Listening to that Dion interview tonight (online), I got this impression of Dion: Trudeau minus the arrogance plus more compassion. I think I could vote for him next election.

12/04/2006 12:14 a.m.  
Blogger dollard_liberal a dit...

What Antonio is trying to say is that for the past 10 months +, the people supporting Michael from the beginning have believed that he was the right man for the job. Now those thoughts were shattered at 6 p.m. Saturday. You guys - especially "anybody but iggy" whose name is now obsolete and tiresome - obviously realize that it's hard to change one's convictions about a rival candidate. And this won't be solved overnight. Give Antonio time and give Antonio credit, at least he's being honest about what he's thinking.


I don't know any Ignatieff supporters who are tearing their memberships and joining the Bloc as some of the posters have viciously alluded to prior to this weekend.

12/04/2006 12:22 a.m.  
Blogger Antonio a dit...

once again, people expect me to be confrontational and resistant but I am far from it.

I will rally to the leader. I just have the caveat that he will have to listen.

I am comforted by the way Dio has reacted to his new title. However, 10 years of stubborness will not o away overnight.

Like i said in my previous post "he cannot afford to be stubborn, and neither can we"

Stop saying this is disloyal and take it for what it is, someone willing to rally together.

12/04/2006 12:25 a.m.  
Blogger dollard_liberal a dit...


I have to say that despite the loss of my candidate, this has been one of the best and most enriching weekends of my life.

I am honoured to have watched history been made before my eyes.

(Even though I did not partake in the free booze and easy women...)

12/04/2006 12:29 a.m.  
Blogger angela a dit...

antonio, when i said you should consider respecting dion, i didnt think you had to go as far as calling him god (see previous comment where you spell his name Dio).

also, dont worry about trogdor. he may be a man, or a dragon man, or maybe just a dragon, but he is still trogdor, the burninator. he is just trying to burninate you. little does he know you once resided in BURNABY, the capital of all burnination.

also, the booze might be free, dollard liberal, but the women might find ddo to be kind of a turnoff.

12/04/2006 2:30 a.m.  
Blogger dollard_liberal a dit...

I'm sure the Mercedes-Benz on my driveway won't be a turnoff to said women...


12/04/2006 2:45 a.m.  
Blogger The Dilettante a dit...

Has it occured to you that you're not important enough for Dion to respond to on his first day as leader? You keep saying that you've offered your hand, but he's busy with bigger fish - say, the other leadership contenders, and tomorrow Harper, and surely the days and weeks after that people that are still more important than a blogger.

Give it six months. If he or his representatives don't get back to you by then, you might have cause for concern. Until then, relax.

12/04/2006 4:24 a.m.  
Blogger anybody but iggy a dit...

You claim you are rallying to the leader, but you say how he's going to lose us seats in QC, etc...then make veiled threats that if he doesn't reach out to you, persoanlly, there will be a penalty.
It's actually hilarious that you think so highly of yourself, but it's doubtful that you prickly and negative attitude are doing much to endear you to others, let alone the next PM.
Dion obviously loves QC, and has worked his whole life for the province and our country.
Since he tried to resolve the whole "nation" debacle by helping Harper to draft a compromise resolution that you yourself championed in this blog, it is very unclear why you are insinuating that our leader is somehow hostile to Quebec.
Stop using your pubilc forum to ask for personal attention from our leader whilst claiming that he does not repect QC,
You are the one "opening old wounds" and not "rallying".

12/04/2006 5:34 a.m.  
Blogger WestmountLiberal a dit...

Antonio -
Time out.

12/04/2006 9:09 a.m.  
Blogger [JTF6.0]Undecided a dit...

Tous d'ensemble. As you may recall Antonio, Dion held a luncheon with all the leadership candidates and asked them for their views. He has made it clear that while he wants to implement his vision, he is also open to the views of others. In other words, we are going to be a team again, just like in 1993 and 2000. Ignatieff will be a major part of that. I, as a Dionista, will look forward of the work that Ignatieff will do in Cabinet (Hopefully in Foreign Affairs or International Trade where he can rewrite our Canadian foreign policy vision for the next fourty years). Ignatieff gave a classy consession speech and I think that we should all follow his example. With Dion, Kennedy, Ignatieff, and Rae leading the way, we will be unstoppable. I hope that we all can be a part of that.

Scott Blurton
BC Undecided

12/04/2006 9:12 a.m.  
Blogger Quebec Liberal a dit...


I did not support Iggy or Dion.

You say that Dion must listen to Quebecers. Fair enough. The strategic Counsel listened to Quebecers yesterday and 66% said they approved«of the Liberal Party`s choice.

I am prepared to listen to Quebecers and I will support Stephane Dion 100%.

Tous Ensemble !!

12/04/2006 10:08 a.m.  
Blogger Manitoba Liberal a dit...

All this talk about cabinet positions and so on, am the only one that still sees us losing the next election to Harper?

What do Iggy and Rae do than?

12/04/2006 10:25 a.m.  
Blogger duojet57 a dit...


Is this your attempt to position yourself as the thorn in the side of Dion as Kinsella was to Martin?

I think you'll have a hard time with that approach (and some competition based on what I've read from other Iggy supporters have blogged).

Dion won. He's the leader of our party. I will support him.

Dion will always be underestimated because of how he looks and talks. He'll be viewed as an underdog against Harper. Canadians, Chretien demonstrated time and time again, love the underdog -- especially one who's self-deprecating and unassuming. In that, I think he's got a bit of Chretien in him.

12/04/2006 11:34 a.m.  
Blogger canuckistanian a dit...

way to "rally" behind the new leader ;-). we got a candidate that everyone can support. he may not be exciting or the best choice, but he's a solid choice.

as a proud iggy detractor i can say that i was moved by his loss and how classy he took it. for the first time i saw a human being, and not some unfeeling being suffering from the worst aspects of the detached-neutrality of a rationalistic epistemology.

1) i believed 24 hours ago that dion would not win us any more seats in quebec (though i didn't think he would lose us any), but habving seen the polling data, i have changed my mind. I am not LYING! ;-)

3) i believed 24 hours ago that dion's stance towards nationlists was good for national unity...still believe it now.

i don't think you are a pariah. indeed, your views and method of getting them across are the same as about 29% of the party. that was a big reason for iggy's loss.

12/04/2006 1:57 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous a dit...

Lay off the poor guy. He was a hardcore alcoholic drinking Iggy's spiked Kool-Aid. It must have been tough to see the Emperor wan't actually wearing any clothes.

I'm sure, given time, he'll come around and help the Liberal cause and be a dutiful soldier in his local riding.

12/04/2006 4:35 p.m.  
Blogger brem a dit...

Good to know some party members are aware of the bad move this week-end.

see for my take on it.

12/04/2006 5:53 p.m.  
Blogger propatria a dit...

Antonio, while you might have valid points, you must remember most of us here are on the same team, as in no hard feelings and better the liberals get elected than neo-reformers/bloc separatists. So i think it would be best for you to differentiate the assheads taking a poke at you for kicks from most people reading, who actually are listening an therefore can be conversed with like normal people.

That being said, what problem exactly does a quebec federalist have with dions view on quebec within canada?

12/04/2006 8:23 p.m.  
Blogger JimTan a dit...

Oh, my god!

Dion is going for the jackpot. He only needs a minority government to pass social justice and green legislation. But, he’s going for a majority government by forcing voters to choose. When was the last time a government did that?

He’s trying to end-run the separatists by fighting on the basis of bigger issues. Does Antonio approve?

Life is certainly going to be interesting. Now, who was describing him as a ‘bureaucrat‘, ‘wonk’ etc.

12/04/2006 9:28 p.m.  
Blogger Erik Sorenson a dit...

Don't worry. I suspect that Stephane will hurt the CPC in Quebec more than Iggy or Rae would have, due to his favourite son status. The rest of Canada? I don't know, we will have to see as time passes.

You are also correct that he needs a new (and specific, not airy-fairy) platform for the party, one heck of a supporting staff and chief aide, and some folks that he can trust implicitly (well ...) in caucus. All the time as he fends off the rolling cannons, of course.

Chief of staff probably isn't anyone who helped him get where he is now.

I wish him well. As a small-c conservative, I want to see healthy competition for Mr. Harper, given that I would NEVER vote for the NDP (or Green with current leader/status).


12/05/2006 1:16 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous a dit...

You know, I supported Iggy and stuck with him all the way. I now support our new leader - without question.

One thing really picked my (Jack Layton) this weekend: hearing some sh!thead or another comment about "Iggy Koolaid". These insulting comments - repeated many a time by people dressed identically in green - were really annoying. Saying something like that insinuates that 45% of the delegates at the convention did not know (or were too stupid to know) who they were supporting or why. Thats a pretty good way to drive a wedge between true Liberals.

We need to stick together, and comments like that (basically akin to saying we were all on drugs) are not exactly what create party unity.

Tous ensemble.

12/05/2006 1:48 a.m.  
Blogger Smok Wawelski a dit...

And if I said before that Dion would win back lost seats in Quebec, and then agreed with you, I'd be lying.
Martin lost what Chretien regained after the Clarity Act by appeasing separatists.
At the very least, Dion will hold what he has, and win back Ahuntsic, Jeanne LeBer, Papineau,Gatineau, Pontiac (bye bye "loose" Cannon) Brome Missisquoi, Brossard LaPrairie & Vaudreuil Soulanges. That's at minimum. I can think of a dozen others where there's a reasonable shot, such as Alfred Pellan, Comptin-Stanstead, Shefford, Salaberry-Beauharnois, Argenteuil, Abitibit-baie James Nunavik-Eeaou, and Chicoutimi-Le Fjord, for starters. Duceppe has met his match, intelelctually, and you will also see that Dion's Dogged determination will play as strong a role as his intellect.

Smok Wawelski, who predicted a Dion win as far back as September 2st , has spoken!

12/05/2006 7:53 a.m.  
Blogger Sinestra a dit...

Antonio, I know how disappointed you were to see your guy lose. When we spoke in the hallway before the results were made public, you seemed pretty convinced Michael would not take it. I found your objectivity to be refreshing and candid. My suggestion to all members of LPCQ is to channel what the most excellent Rt. Hon. JC brought into the room on Saturday: a real desire to WIN! weèll go from there.

12/05/2006 10:45 a.m.  

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