December 28, 2006

Top 1 Reason Jason Cherniak Misunderstands Quebec

Jason’s Listing of Harper’s Top 10 Mistakes include:

3) Raising expectations on the "Fiscal Imbalance";

8) The Québécois Nation;

So…the two biggest steps for federalism in 10 years (since the Clarity Act) are considered mistakes…if we campaign on these so-called mistakes next election, then we are in much bigger trouble than I thought…

Ironically, catering to Quebec is bad, but catering to Ontario is good…reason number 7

7) All but ignoring Dalton McGuinty and the needs of Ontario;

Favoring Quebec = 2 mistakes Not Favoring Ontario = Mistake

No mention of cuts to social programs or the status of women, or to linguistic minorities. No mention of purposely hiding the truth about Giuliano Zaccardelli, but heaven forbid Jason, recognizing a historical fact for Quebecers is far far worse than any of that…

Jason, I used to say you misunderstood Quebec. It’s worse than I thought…apparently, it’s not just Quebec.

29 Commentaires:

Blogger Alex Plante a dit...

Antonio,

Be a little more understanding. Jason comes from Toronto. ;-)

Alex

12/28/2006 11:31 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous a dit...

Well, what can I say? I see what's happening here:

Everyone takes his own province too seriously, thus failing to look at the bigger picture.

I think all provinces should be 100% equal and that all that nonsense of special favours here and there must stop - because this is the source of all "evil" and all the problems we have had in this fictitious country called "Canada" so far.

At this point, "Canada" is not real, because it has yet to become reality, and, sadly, we're far from achieving that.

When we start recognizing individual provinces as "nations", we're digging the hole we've been digging ourselves for generations even deeper.

Ignatieff's opening of Pandora's box was a colossal mistake (and shows that he has no place in politics), and Harper played along and aggravated Ignatieff's fatal error.

As I said, either all provinces are equal and there are no more special recognitions, favours, gifts, kowtowing, etc. or Canada as such doesn't exist. And if the latter is true, then hells bells, let this country fall apart, because it wouldn't be worth saving anyway.

Cheers,
Werner

12/29/2006 12:54 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous a dit...

Identity is not fact Antonio, it's feeling. Identity is for individuals to choose, hold and develop. Like I said over and over during that somewhat futile debate, it is the role of MPs to represent their constituents, not to define them.

Please describe how the Quebecois "nation" is a historical fact.

And since you support such definitions, it would be also great if you could tell us, your faithful readership, just exactly who fits into the "historically factual" Quebecois nation and who does not, and according then who has been recognized. I should warn you though that, at least as far as I "know," "facts" tend to have pretty clearly defined parameters and do not mean ten different things to five different people.

Then proceed to enjoy the rest of your holidays!

Talk to you soon I'm sure,

-Braeden

12/29/2006 1:45 AM  
Blogger Sinestra a dit...

Braeden asks some very relevant questions, Antonio. I'm also extremely intersted in your response - as a Quebecer who does not agree with you, that is. I do agree, though, that Cherniak knows not too much about Quebec - but not for the reasons you list.

12/29/2006 8:05 AM  
Blogger bigcitylib a dit...

I think raising the issue of the fiscal imbalance is a mistake because Harper can never meet the expectations generated. Fiscal imbalance = handouts to the provinces, which means all ten provinces will want a piece, which means nobody will get much, Quebec included.

As for the Quebec nation thing, that was a fluffy meaningless valentine of love from the rest of the country. Enjoy it. It amounts to squat. I'm not sure I agree with Cherniak on the extent of the mistake, however, because I think the whole thing is likely to go away in 2007.

And as for Quebec vs. Ontario, we here in Ontario are used to being ignored by the Feds. We don't whine (much) and never threaten to seperate. Both Quebec and Alberta could learn from our example.

12/29/2006 8:48 AM  
Blogger Jason Cherniak a dit...

I don't see how you think teo symboloci issues are "favouring" Quebec. Instead of focusing on the meaningless tripe, you should be talking about the details that actually matter.

12/29/2006 9:08 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous a dit...

Hi,
I'm new on the blogosphere, and although it seems to me that you Fuddle Duddle people often reflect a wisdom on Québec issues that may be somewhat too "conventional", at least you do not show the wholesale dismissiveness that I read way too often from your contradictors and I sure commend you for that.
I think the nation thing was an excellent accident, and if a mistake it is actually a strategic one, as it will allow Stéphane Dion (if he goes on as he's started) to display a completely different persona than what nationalists expected here (and probably many "one-nation" fundamentalists elsewhere).
As to the fiscal imbalance, I think it is way too early to know how this will turn out, and whether or not the Conservatives made a mistake will certainly depend on how the federal Libs can sell the idea in Québec that they would do better (which should include showing that they would give them better bang for their federal tax buck).
Oh, and I don't think there is such a thing as a source of all "evil". Good grief, this is politics, not religion.

12/29/2006 10:09 AM  
Blogger Manitoba Liberal a dit...

To be fair to Jason, it's not just Quebec he misunderstands.

His prediction of a Martin majority and even worse his critism of the latest and best Bond film Casino Royale are far worse examples of questionable decsion making.

12/29/2006 11:02 AM  
Blogger s.b. a dit...

Antonio how long is it that your family has been in Quebec???

12/29/2006 11:08 AM  
Blogger brem a dit...

Antonio: If Liberals could be like the conservatives, only with a more social agenda! :) :) :)

12/29/2006 11:11 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous a dit...

Top One Reason Jason Misunderstands Quebec: Most of English Canada does.

Top One Reason Antonio Misunderstands The ROC: Most of Quebec does.

12/29/2006 2:33 PM  
Blogger Manitoba Liberal a dit...

Jean Lapierre is the only man who really "gets" Quebec.

Dion should make him his Quebec Lt. and watch the Liberals win 65 seats in the province.

Good Idea, no?

12/29/2006 3:35 PM  
Blogger big gay al's big gay liberal sanctuary a dit...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

12/29/2006 4:22 PM  
Blogger big gay al's big gay liberal sanctuary a dit...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

12/29/2006 4:25 PM  
Blogger big gay al's big gay liberal sanctuary a dit...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

12/29/2006 4:26 PM  
Blogger big gay al's big gay liberal sanctuary a dit...

No one has been able to define what the Quebec nation is.

The best is the feeling among non-francophone Quebecois. As usual, there is that constant feeling of abandonment. On the one hand, elements of the federal government cozies up to separtists/soft-nationalists by crying out that Bill 101 is a great Canadian law, despite the fact that it infringes on human rights. On the other hand, you have the racist elements of Quebec's society that prefer to look at last names and accents, rather than the person's actual contribution to society.

When will anyone care about Quebec's non-francophone community? I'm not holding my breath.

The fact is ANTONIO, that if you ask anyone of your Italo-Quebecois/Canadian compatriotes, they identify themselves as Italians, not Quebecois and not Canadians.

That in itself speaks volumes.

12/29/2006 4:26 PM  
Blogger Antonio a dit...

Braeden, dont make it sound like I havent answered that question hundreds of times...

A quebecer is a person who lives in Quebec. There is no quebec citizenship bcause Quebec is not a country. Is a person who moves here Canadian the moment they step off a plane? If we are never this philosophical about the Canadian identity, why do people get so defensive when we refer to Quebec's identity?

How do I misunderstand the rest of Canada? By saying Canadian identity is not altered by the existence of a Quebec identity?

What Harper did (and indirectly, what Ignatieff started) was years ahead of its time, and will definitely have long term consequences. Time will tell if they are positive or negative. However, twenty years down the road, after the constitution is amended to reflect this reality and Quebec becomes a signatory to the Charter, some people are gonna look mightily dumb.

Shoshana, my mother arrived in 1961 and my father in 1975. You want to accuse them of genocide too?

12/29/2006 5:33 PM  
Blogger cat mutant a dit...

Shoshana

What the hell is the point of your comment? If you have nothing constructive to say, keep your stupidites to yourself.

You are so biggoted against Italians it is not even funny. Italian-Canadians have contributed a great deal to Canada.

World War Two was ugly. No one is denying that. Stop bringing up the wrongs of the past. Israel and Italy have amicable and constructive relations today... your petty prejudice statements are really out of wack with reality.

12/29/2006 10:44 PM  
Blogger cat mutant a dit...

Might I add, get a life and get out of that bubble you call Guelph. There is a complex world outside small-town Ontario.

But if you want to be a bigot, go right ahead, it's your choice.

Just keep your bigotted comments to yourself.

12/29/2006 10:47 PM  
Blogger anybody but iggy a dit...

Shoshana never said anything ABOUT WWII, or genocide, in her post.
Her point was obviously that Antonio's "historical" argument is pretty weak, because Quebec is a nation of immigrants (starting with the French themselves, when they stole this land out from under the Abroiginals). For someone to be accused of bigotry out of thin air is pretty insane, even for this blog.

12/30/2006 12:39 PM  
Blogger cat mutant a dit...

Anybody but Iggy

Before you make comments, know what you're talking about.

Shoshana asked Antonio a few months ago how many Jews his grandfather killed. She then deleted the comment from this blog, not before it was recorded. Her comment reflects her bigotry, because someone who isn't a bigot wouldn't have asked such a question.

Her subsequent question on this blog further tries to undermine Antonio... it doesn't matter how long your family has been in Quebec or Canada OR if you were even born here. ALL citizens are equal and associate themselves with various national identities.

Also, change your name, its getting pretty tiresome at this point.

12/30/2006 2:48 PM  
Blogger cat mutant a dit...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

12/30/2006 2:52 PM  
Blogger cat mutant a dit...

ALSO, if Shoshana's comment (asking Antonio how many Jews his grandfather killed) wasn't offensive and bigotted, she wouldn't have felt the need to delete it because of the outcry on this blog and others.

The comment was a reflection of a sad individual. All I can hope is that she didn't mean it, but I really don't care what some nut in Guelph thinks... it's irrelevant to reality.

12/30/2006 2:53 PM  
Blogger anybody but iggy a dit...

Obviously, this blog doesn't cater to nuts in Guelph, only nuts in QC...
So why not address that the basic humiliation and oppression in QC's "historical" record is the Aboriginals at the hand of the French?
ps - If you disagree with SB, then do not dis the entire region from which she hails - you sound very biased.

12/31/2006 2:09 AM  
Blogger cat mutant a dit...

Wow, you are quite delusional...

Actually, if you'd know anything about history or recent events, you'd know that the French and Natives have long had much more amicable relations that the British and Natives. Historically, French worked with the Natives, while British saw them as a nuisance.

This is not to say there are problems, such as the Oka crisis... but let's not forget Ontario's treatments of it's Natives in the north, who were basically living in 3rd world conditions.

You are clearly anti-Quebec. As for me dissing Guelph, I did no such thing, and I have nothing against anyone from there because I'm not a bigot. I have problems with people who say bigoted things. The "nut from Guelph" statement is synonymous to Shoshana.

If you are part of the Liberals, I don't see how your divisive attitude and making up stories to suit your twisted views benefits the party.

12/31/2006 11:25 AM  
Blogger The Rat a dit...

Rather than ask Antonio, a new resident of Quebec, what makes Quebec unique, why not ask why the other 9 provinces and 3 territories are not unique? It seems Antonio is defining Quebec as a nation not based on a French culture which would exclude him but rather on some ephemeral differentness that somehow includes everyone inside the physical borders of Quebec yet excludes everyone else. Hey, I'm just a Westerner with no understanding of Quebec but it seems to me that Antonio and his Quebec nation are special because they are special. It's too damn much Sesame Street, I think, because when everyone is special, no one is.

12/31/2006 4:20 PM  
Blogger Antonio a dit...

I love it how I can be considered a new Quebecer when I was born and raised here.

By saying somehow I am less Quebecer than my fellow citizens, is using ethnic nationalism, and border-line discrimination.

Hey rat, do yourself a favor and pick up Blood and Belonging, and read all about how ethnic nationalism is divisive and destroys countries.

On another note, happy new year to everyone.

12/31/2006 6:05 PM  
Blogger anybody but iggy a dit...

The issue of Quebec identity has really been manipulated by this blog - and it doesn't seem to have much to do with "new" or "old" Quebecers, nor with Francos, Anlgos, or Allos, nor with ethnicity or Canadianess, nor with geographic borders, or federalism or sovereignism.
Rather, it seems that the only "Quebecers" recognized here are those who feel Quebec is a "nation" and agree that a "fiscal imbalance" exists.
For Alex to say that anyone who lives within Quebec is a part of the Quebec nation seems willfully disingenuous, because many Quebec residents who post here hold dissenting views on those topics.

12/31/2006 11:32 PM  
Blogger James Bowie a dit...

Do you think the #1 criticism of blogs is that they refer to blogs?

1/04/2007 1:57 AM  

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